Beiträge von ventus

    DR2 INVESTIGATES: CIRCUMCISED AGAINST HIS WILL tick on the calendar Monday, d. 10/2-2014, at. 21.00-21.30, where DR2 examines follows Leo Milgrom in search of the answer to why circumcision is so important for Jews.

    Leo Milgrom wrote in 2012 the strong feature article in Politiken "Can you give me my foreskin back?", which was an open letter to the Chief Rabbi Bent Lexner (http://politiken.dk/debat/kroniken…forhud-tilbage/) spread the word: get your friends to view this documentary! Especially those, you think, it is most difficult to get to relate to boys circumcision in other ways than through TV media.

    Silays andauernde Hinweise auf seine evidenzbasierte Medizin haben auch noch einen anderen Pferdefuß.
    Die zufriedenstellende Wirkung von z.B. Schmerz/Kopfschmerz- und Migränemittel, ebenso wie Psychopharmaka kann lediglich durch Befragung der Patienten zufriedenstellend beantwortet werden. Das liegt außerhalb dessen was rein objektiv feststellbar oder messbar ist. Er klammert das subjektiv feststellbare Empfinden des Patienten aus und stellt es völlig abseits...

    Der türkische Arzt zitierte übrigens mindestens dreimal Brian Morris. Er nannte Beschneidungen unter Lokal- und unter Allgemeinanästhesie komplett schmerzfrei. Er kündigte an, dass ab 2015 in der Türkei Beschneidungen nur noch von Ärzten durchgeführt werden dürfen.


    Nicht nur 3 mal... sein gesamtes argumentatives Repertoire ist von BM übernommen, zum Teil im wortlaut übernommen.

    Das Elternrecht ist eben nicht das Recht der Eltern, sondern Elternverantwortung:

    "Art.6 Abs.2 Satz 1 GG erlegt den Eltern die Pflicht auf, ihr Kind zu erziehen. Ziel der Erziehung ist das Wohl des Kindes. Das Wohl des Kindes ist eine Ausprägung der Menschenwürde aus Art.1 Satz 1 GG. Diese umfasst sämtliche Grundrechte. Besondere Kinderrechte in die Verfassung aufzunehmen, ist daher rechtsdogmatisch nicht sinnvoll. Da das _Elternrecht_ niemals ohne Bezug zum Kindeswohl ausgeübt werden kann, also ein _fremdnütziges Recht_ ist, bezeichnet man es einprägsamer als „Elternverantwortung“. Ein Gegensatz zwischen Elternrecht und Kindes recht existiert rechtsdogmatisch nicht, da das Elternrecht von vornherein durch die Verwirklichung der Kinderrechte begrenzt ist (BVerfGE 24, 119, 143)"

    http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/News/Ne…&lang=2&cat=133

    Es wird auch eine Liveübertragung im Web geben sowie eine Aufzeichnung zum späteren Abruf.

    A parliamentary hearing on the circumcision of young boys is to take place in Strasbourg at 2 p.m. on Tuesday 28 January 2014 on the margins of the plenary session of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE).

    The hearing – organised by PACE’s Committee on Social Affairs, Health and Sustainable Development – will bring together medical experts, including those representing the Jewish and Muslim communities, and parliamentarians, and will be streamed live over the web.

    It follows the adoption in October 2013 of the Assembly’s resolution and recommendation on “children’s right to physical integrity” and aims to encourage the open debate between different disciplines called for by the Assembly in these texts.

    Participants include:

    • Bernard Lobel, urologist, Professor at the Faculty of Medicine of Rennes (France), member of the French Academy of Surgeons

    • Mesrur Selçuk Silay, paediatric urologist, Assistant Professor at the Faculty of Medicine, Bezmialem Vakif University (Istanbul, Turkey)

    • Wolfram Hartmann, paediatrician and President of the Professional Federation of Paediatricians and Youth Doctors (Germany)

    • Ronald Goldman, researcher and Director of the Circumcision Resource Center (Boston, USA)

    • Marlene Rupprecht, former PACE rapporteur on this issue

    Representatives of religious organisations, including the Conference of European Rabbis and the French Council of the Muslim Faith, are expected to attend, as well as NGOs active in this field. Members of the Knesset, which holds observer status with PACE, are also due to take part.

    A short excerpt of the 1995 television documentary “It's a Boy” by British director Victor Schonfeld will be shown at the hearing, as well as extracts from another film - currently in production – putting forward the point of view of the Knesset observer delegation. Both films should be screened in full just prior to the hearing, at 1 p.m. on Tuesday 28 January in the Projection Room.

    ***

    Practical information

    The hearing will take place from 2 to 3.30pm French time in Room 1 of the Palais de l’Europe in Strasbourg.

    Die jpost.com berichtet:
    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/J…ion-laws-338794

    PACE secretary-general calls motion limiting minority rights dangerous; MK Shai plans to screen pro-circumcision short in PACE committee meeting.
    Baby undergoes circumcision

    The Knesset is producing a short pro-circumcision documentary, to be filmed this week and shown in a committee of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe next week.
    Related:

    MKs to traverse Europe to combat anti-circumcision proposals
    Ben-Dahan to Council of Europe leader: Circumcision ban violates freedom of religion

    On Monday, MK Nachman Shai (Labor) will represent Israel in the PACE Committee on Social Affairs, Health and Sustainable Development, where he plans to screen the film.

    German ex-MP Marlene Rupprecht, who pushed through a motion limiting ritual circumcision last year, invited four doctors to the committee. She also invited filmmaker Victor Schonfeld to present It’s a Boy, an anti-circumcision documentary he had produced.

    “It’s a Boy is very bad for the Jewish tradition. Victor Schonfeld is a known anti-Zionist,” Shai said. “We demand equal time for our views.”

    Shai received approval from Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein on Monday to hire a production company that will interview experts on the topic of circumcision.

    The seven- to eight-minute short will also feature Israeli doctors who traveled to Africa to circumcise men in an effort to fight AIDS.

    “Maybe we’ll call our film ‘It’s a Circumcised Boy,’” Shai quipped.

    The Knesset plans to reuse the film to explain the importance of not outlawing ritual circumcision during lawmakers’ visits to Europe and other places around the world.

    Meanwhile, Thorbjørn Jagland, secretary-general of the Council of Europe, during a meeting with Muslim and Jewish clerics on Monday slammed the 2013 resolution by his organization’s legislative arm expressing opposition to ritual circumcision.

    The council is a pan-European intergovernmental organization of 47 member states that is not affiliated with the European Union, and which cannot pass binding laws.

    Speaking with a delegation of rabbis and imams that the New Yorkbased Foundation For Ethnic Understanding organized, Jagland asserted that “starting to limit the rights of minorities is a very dangerous avenue to pursue.

    “Whenever we have limited their rights, it has always led to catastrophe,” he told the delegation, that included Said Aalla, the former imam of Strasbourg, where COE is headquartered, as well as René Gutman, the city’s chief rabbi.

    FFEU president Rabbi Marc Schneier praised Jagland, and said he believed that the battle for ritual circumcision was “not an issue which affects only Jews or only Muslims, but truly hurts the traditions of a large percentage of the peoples of faith both here in Europe and around the world.”

    “What the secretary-general basically said is that this is a moot discussion because they can discuss and debate and deliberate all that they want but there is no way that the Council of Europe is ever going to accept such a resolution or proclamation.

    It is just not going to happen,” Schneier told the Post. “If we were to ban circumcision then Muslims and Jews would no longer be able to continue living in Europe.”

    The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed a resolution in October calling male ritual circumcision a “violation of the physical integrity of children” and urging the organization’s member states to “initiate a public debate, including intercultural and interreligious dialogue, aimed at reaching a large consensus on the rights of children to protection against violations of their physical integrity according to human rights standards.”

    Jewish organizations reacted harshly, with the leaders of some European communities deeming the measure to be deeply anti-Semitic. Israel and Turkey, both COE member states, issued denunciations. Israel has prepared a text for a counter-resolution, which it hopes to pass through PACE.

    This is not the first time that the COE secretary-general has denounced the PACE resolution. In November, Jagland told a gathering of European rabbis in Berlin that “in no way does the Council of Europe want to ban the practice of male circumcision.”

    “Female genital mutilation violates human rights. Male circumcision does not. That is my position. That is the position of the Council of Europe,” he said.

    While the PACE resolution has no legal standing, such resolutions exert a powerful moral influence in Europe, and the secretary-general’s statements asserting the body’s opposition to the concepts embodied in the resolution can be seen as an effort to change the prevailing discourse surrounding circumcision.

    European Jewish activists believe that Jagland’s statements are part of a battle to set the moral agenda in Europe on issues of religious freedom, and that the resolution, non-binding as it is, was the opening salvo of an effort to turn local initiatives against circumcision into a continent-wide moral crusade against the practice.

    Speaking with The Jerusalem Post on Monday, Conference of European Rabbis chief Rabbi Pinchas Goldschmidt expressed his concern that PACE “has not yet rescinded its position against circumcision,” but expressed hope that during next week’s debate “the members of PACE will reflect on their infringement of religious freedom, which is a fundamental value of the Council.”

    Maren Lambrecht, a COE official, confirmed to the Post that it is procedurally impossible to cancel a previously passed resolution, but indicated that a special panel will examine the topic next week and that several medical experts and religious leaders will attend and present their views on the matter. While there will not be a formal decision taken at the end of this meeting, she said, the discussion is necessary due to the “harsh international debate” engendered by the 2013 resolution, among other reasons.

    “What it could lead to is that some of the people who might be interested in preparing a new text would listen to some of the debates next week, and maybe this could influence what they are going to write in a new report,” Lambrecht said.

    Despite news reports, she said, “there will not be a discussion at this meeting on the [Israeli] counterproposal” during the session.

    Herb Keinon contributed to this report.

    Dr Rebecca Steinfeld hatte mal einen Artikel geschrieben, in dem sie von Juden als eine "anti-jüdische Jüdin" bezeichnet wurde... Sie hat es mit Humor gekontert und gefragt, warum denn nicht als "DIE anti-jüdische Jüdin".... sowas ist irgendwie schon ziemlich schwer zu verstehen...

    In wie fern im täglichen leben integriert? Immer wenn ich mich mal mit muslimen unterhalten habe, ob sie ggf leichter mit der beschneidung zurechtkommen, weil es ja nahezu obligat in solchen gesellschaften ist dies durchzuführen und dadurch ja mutmaßlich offener damit umgegangen wird bekomme ich mehr oder weniger genau das gegenteil zu hören.... darüber reden? wahnsinnig? fast nie, nur hinter verschlossenen türen auf schamstufe 10 mit bestenfalls dem engsten vertrauten freund...

    Erm, sorry Sokrates, ich bezog mich dabei nicht auf den Balanitis-Text von der AOK, sondern auf die Zusammenfassung der Beiträge des Symposiums. Die Rednerliste steht wohl bisher nur in dem Flyer zu dieser Veranstaltung. Der Vortrag über DSD wurde von Ludwikowski gehalten und der Beitrag über Cognitive
    task analysis von Gonzales. Ich wollte einfach nur mal wissen, wer das so ist.

    Aus dem Zeitungsartikel, der der Leserzuschrift vorrausgegangen ist:

    In Hispanic cultures, as in many others, circumcision is the exception, not
    the norm. "There are no medical benefits of circumcision, not one piece of
    evidence
    ," said Dr. Ricardo Gonzalez, chief of urology at Children's Hospital
    of Michigan, in Detroit. "The views have more to do with emotion than
    science.
    "

    Ich hatte mal ein bischen Recherchiert über die Ludwikowski und den Gonzales. Gonzales ist mit Ludwikowski verheiratet. Sie ist in Hannover an der Bult Chefärztin der Urologie und er arbeitet seit 2012 in Berlin an der Charité. 1999 hat Gonzales in der Detroit Free Press einen Leserkommentar geschrieben zu einem Zeitungsartikel, in dem wohl über ihn geschrieben wurde:

    Circumcision facts

    By including one of my opinions regarding neonatal circumcision in a paragraph
    headed by a statement regarding Hispanics' attitudes toward the procedure, a
    March 2 article created the impression that my opinion is driven by a presumed
    ethnic background ("Doctors question common surgery").
    My opinions are based purely on the existing evidence that the vast majority
    of children's circumcisions are performed for cosmetic and not medical
    reasons.
    The practice will persist as long as the parents are not allowed the
    opportunity of true informed consent and third-party payers continue to
    reimburse the practitioners responsible for it.
    Ricardo Gonzlez, MD

    Beverly Hills